" Feature: Prediction and correction of movement. Let’s say you’re trying to make a horizontal movement. Of course your hand isn’t 100% steady, so your line will have slight diversions and wouldn’t be completely straight. Back in the day, the manufacturers of mouse sensors decided to include a feature in the optical sensors of their mice, that would help people draw straight lines. It would “remove” the small diversions, if the diversion was less than a certain angle and instead just draw a perfectly straight line. The funny thing is: This feature has never been marketed, though it has been in countless mice over the past years. Can you guess why?
Problem: Prediction cost you precision. Period. If your mouse is trying to predict your movements, instead of just performing the movements you are actually doing, your precision is obviously degraded. If you want to make a movement that is almost, but not quite, a straight line (meaning you want to move a bit up and like half a screen to the right for example) then your movement will be altered. This function of sensors kicks in pretty fast and the worst part: in most sensors you can’t even disable it. Solution: The introduction of SteelSeries FreeMove. This frees your movement from pre-calculated or altered movements imposed by your sensor. What basically happens is the following: As our sensor is programmable we let you remove (recommended), keep and even tune the settings of this particular feature. After conducting testing with gamers, it became painfully obvious that prediction should be optional. FreeMove allows the user to completely disable prediction– as well as utilize different degrees of prediction, as personal preference dictates. Again, this prediction “feature” has never been marketed, and we expect you will see several mouse companies remove the feature in the future now that we have brought attention to it. This will hopefully make future mice more precise for everyone. "
Do logitech mx mice ( mx300/310/510/518 etc ) have this "correction" feature in their sensors ? it's very easy to draw a straight long line while using them in mspaint, ms optical mice on the other hand give you jagged lines no matter how hard you try
What do you think, do you believe that razer and logi use sensors with correcting algorithms ? could it be the reason why logitech mice are called "slow" and most cs pros still prefer ms 1.1 and 3.0 over them ?
#3 i'm not saying they are bad, 518 & diamondback can achieve ridiculously high perfect control(no neg accel) speeds @ 800 dpi or lower , so does DA at 1800 dpi and mx300/mx500 @ 400dpi 500hz according to sujoy's mouse score 2007, no ms optical mouse can stand against them in that aspect
I doubt anyone here can really tell the difference if its on or off. Thing is, as far as i understand it just the 1 count of movement that counts, and that hardly makes a difference with low/medium sensitivities, because, i mean 0.1 mm isn't gonna make much of a difference in aiming, when your sensitivity is 10 cm /360 or more, because then its just 1% of the whole sensitivity, and human error is far beyond that.
Yeah they may be right, but imho it doesn't' matter
This whole prediction thingy is definately what makes a mouse skip and do other sorts of odd movements which doesn't correspond with what you intended to do - a problem that we've heard alot about regarding the copperhead for instance.
If prediction is a bad thing? Well it's hard to say. If Logitech, Microsoft or Razer has created some sort of genius algorithm doing these predictions making them 100% accurate for a certain type of person (gamer) it isn't a bad thing.
But then again why haven't any of these companies made a technology that doesn't rely on predictions? I think that the Ikari Laser and the Razer Lachesis will be some pretty interesting mice as they both promise true CPI increment and not predicted.
btw: #7 What if you make sudden movements? You don't belive that prediction doesn't count in that case? And where did your original post about the article go :S?
#8 Skipping with laser mice comes from the fact, the processor inside the mouse has to compare a lot more images in very little time. Since laser mice tend to work as - taking a picture of the surface, then taking 1 more a fraction of the second later, finding the difference between the two thus resulting in a movement of the cursor. With increasing speed, the processor will eventually fail to keep up with all the pictures the laser is taking, and will just say - ah well, **** that. Then cursor skips :)
As far as prediction goes - its actually good for office work etc graphics and so on. And unfortunately, gamers aren't the biggest buying audience of mice manufacturers
Original post is on ESreality forums, which are down at the moment, so i cant paste a link at this given time. Sudden movements shouldnt be a bother, since the prediction algorithm works in a certain delta region of the line.
So lets say you want to draw a line but your hands are shaking. You end up drawning a line that is straight only if the amiplitute of your shakes does not exceen n-amount of counts of the mouse. I presume n would equal 1. But if you were to try and draw a line, that would differ by 1 count, ie pixel, you would force yourself to move the mouse down. Now based on human anatomy and all that kind of stuff, the shakes of your hand happen alot faster than your hand movement ment to be intentinally, so when you move the mouse down, the mouse compare teh time you moved it, to the time it is allowed for prediction. If the time is greater than prediction time, it will move 1 count down. This is my understanding, it may or may not be right or it may be based on counts, so it waits for you to make a 2 count movement resulting in a 1 count movement.
i wouldnt want it to steady my hand. unless i was off by a very small amount, it doesnt seem helpful, and why have it if you will disable it? thats just another $10 on each mouse.
i noticed that when i first switched from a 1.1 to a mx500 back in the day i just thought the x,y axis was a little faster or something but it compleatly makes sense now it dosent bother me but the 1.1 being my first optical mouse and playing with only it for years b4 i got a mx500 it was really hard to get use to the mx500 right away
Ah, this is why i can't use logitech or razer mice!
For the longest time i've been trying to use MX518, MX310, G1, DeathAdder, ect. and no matter what i couldn't use them! It kinda frustated me like "i just spent 30$ on this mouse, it tracks fast movement, has good shape, but i suck with it!". i never under stood why i kept going back to my 3.0 or 1.1a or my old A4tech x-718 but now i do, this just kinda puts my mind at ease fr something thats been naggin at me.
I know now to never buy razer or logitech mice ever again, lookin forward to the steel series mouse :D
I'm 100% sure that the Logitech MX / G5 series use prediction and correction of movement and I'm also 100% sure that the 1.1 and 3.0 don't. Because it's almost impossible to draw a straight line in paint with the 1.1 and 3.0, and with the MX / G5 series it's a piece of cake.
I always thought that the sensor of the 1.1 / 3.0 was outdated because of this, until I read this article.
#12 is right on. i have MX518 and i wonder why the hell i tried 2weeks getting used to it and failed. i switched back to my old A4tech X-750 and 3.0 and works perfectly fine for me
#20 it sure as hell is working in my case. If i had known about the logitech thing i wouldn't have ever wasted 40$ for a G1, and 30$ for the 518. I'll buy one of the steel series mouse just for informing me why logitech mice and me didn't mix, plus the shape looks nice.
People - this prediction thing, you're all making a big fuss over it. I mean it does not impede your aim or whatever. It's to small of a prediction to do anything with your aim.
hi. This Fragyou blog entry is borderline slanderous marketing and I would advise none of you to take it to heart. Maybe there haven't been real "gaming mice" by their definition, but so many of you have used mice for years that supposedly have this "prediction" feature built in. Did you notice it? No. Therefore does it even slightly matter? No.
This thread is locked because I don't like how its making all of you want to go out and change mice for no reason.
!-- Begin comScore Tag -->
logi&razer predict your aim?
this very interesting part caught my eye
"
Feature: Prediction and correction of movement. Let’s say you’re trying to make a horizontal movement. Of course your hand isn’t 100% steady, so your line will have slight diversions and wouldn’t be completely straight. Back in the day, the manufacturers of mouse sensors decided to include a feature in the optical sensors of their mice, that would help people draw straight lines. It would “remove” the small diversions, if the diversion was less than a certain angle and instead just draw a perfectly straight line. The funny thing is: This feature has never been marketed, though it has been in countless mice over the past years. Can you guess why?
Problem: Prediction cost you precision. Period. If your mouse is trying to predict your movements, instead of just performing the movements you are actually doing, your precision is obviously degraded. If you want to make a movement that is almost, but not quite, a straight line (meaning you want to move a bit up and like half a screen to the right for example) then your movement will be altered. This function of sensors kicks in pretty fast and the worst part: in most sensors you can’t even disable it.
Solution: The introduction of SteelSeries FreeMove. This frees your movement from pre-calculated or altered movements imposed by your sensor. What basically happens is the following: As our sensor is programmable we let you remove (recommended), keep and even tune the settings of this particular feature. After conducting testing with gamers, it became painfully obvious that prediction should be optional. FreeMove allows the user to completely disable prediction– as well as utilize different degrees of prediction, as personal preference dictates. Again, this prediction “feature” has never been marketed, and we expect you will see several mouse companies remove the feature in the future now that we have brought attention to it. This will hopefully make future mice more precise for everyone. "
Do logitech mx mice ( mx300/310/510/518 etc ) have this "correction" feature in their sensors ? it's very easy to draw a straight long line while using them in mspaint, ms optical mice on the other hand give you jagged lines no matter how hard you try
What do you think, do you believe that razer and logi use sensors with correcting algorithms ? could it be the reason why logitech mice are called "slow" and most cs pros still prefer ms 1.1 and 3.0 over them ?
So this is only found in modern laser mouse, or some opticles to :S?
I think it is just a marketing scam
Yeah they may be right, but imho it doesn't' matter
If prediction is a bad thing? Well it's hard to say. If Logitech, Microsoft or Razer has created some sort of genius algorithm doing these predictions making them 100% accurate for a certain type of person (gamer) it isn't a bad thing.
But then again why haven't any of these companies made a technology that doesn't rely on predictions? I think that the Ikari Laser and the Razer Lachesis will be some pretty interesting mice as they both promise true CPI increment and not predicted.
btw:
#7 What if you make sudden movements? You don't belive that prediction doesn't count in that case? And where did your original post about the article go :S?
Since laser mice tend to work as - taking a picture of the surface, then taking 1 more a fraction of the second later, finding the difference between the two thus resulting in a movement of the cursor.
With increasing speed, the processor will eventually fail to keep up with all the pictures the laser is taking, and will just say - ah well, **** that. Then cursor skips :)
As far as prediction goes - its actually good for office work etc graphics and so on. And unfortunately, gamers aren't the biggest buying audience of mice manufacturers
Original post is on ESreality forums, which are down at the moment, so i cant paste a link at this given time.
Sudden movements shouldnt be a bother, since the prediction algorithm works in a certain delta region of the line.
So lets say you want to draw a line but your hands are shaking. You end up drawning a line that is straight only if the amiplitute of your shakes does not exceen n-amount of counts of the mouse. I presume n would equal 1. But if you were to try and draw a line, that would differ by 1 count, ie pixel, you would force yourself to move the mouse down.
Now based on human anatomy and all that kind of stuff, the shakes of your hand happen alot faster than your hand movement ment to be intentinally, so when you move the mouse down, the mouse compare teh time you moved it, to the time it is allowed for prediction. If the time is greater than prediction time, it will move 1 count down.
This is my understanding, it may or may not be right
or it may be based on counts, so it waits for you to make a 2 count movement resulting in a 1 count movement.
For the longest time i've been trying to use MX518, MX310, G1, DeathAdder, ect. and no matter what i couldn't use them! It kinda frustated me like "i just spent 30$ on this mouse, it tracks fast movement, has good shape, but i suck with it!". i never under stood why i kept going back to my 3.0 or 1.1a or my old A4tech x-718 but now i do, this just kinda puts my mind at ease fr something thats been naggin at me.
I know now to never buy razer or logitech mice ever again, lookin forward to the steel series mouse :D
And you sir, should be banned :-)
I always thought that the sensor of the 1.1 / 3.0 was outdated because of this, until I read this article.
DA has it for sure.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8164/d..
Top is DA other is 3.0
j/k
How you like this one. Can't draw this straight a line with my 3.0.
My conclusions are:
logitech mx310 has prediction on
logitech mx518 has prediction on
microsoft 3.0 has prediction off
microsoft 1.1 has prediction off
tested without drivers
gg microsoft wins this long battle.
gay logitech :/
This thread is locked because I don't like how its making all of you want to go out and change mice for no reason.
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