Hardcore gaming fans still hanging onto their CRTs with superior refresh rates and motion fluidity should be delighted to hear 120Hz LCD monitors are waiting just around the corner and should be available early next year. It started off with ViewSonic announcing it's VX2265WM http://www.viewsonic.com/company/news/vie.. which was demonstrated at NVISION 2008 together with NVIDIA's new try to bring 3D stereoscophic gaming alive after many years of hibernation due to incompatible LCD displays.
For more information on 3D stereoscophic gaming read http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features.. great article. (Interview with ViewSonic rep and details about their 120Hz panel available on 2nd page).
However ViewSonic isn't the only manufacturer that's been keen on entering the 120Hz LCD monitor market, Samsung have hinted long ago already at CES 2006 when it showed off it's first 120Hz based TVs that in future also LCD computer screens could be enjoying higher refresh rates in order to improve motion smoothness, however when that would happen was very unclear at that point. Now with NVIDIA announcing the revival of 3D stereoscophic gaming and ViewSonic announced its own solution, Samsung also wants to get a piece of the new cake, with a model dubbed SyncMaster 2233RZ with following specs:
It shouldn't be too long before the Samsung display is available with product page already up and the display shipped off to select people for testing, sounds like late January or February to me. The ViewSonic display is said to be available since January sometimes according to some interviews/articles I've read (can't find the source right now). I think it's safe to say now that 120Hz capable LCDs will be available and available very soon too! :) I don't think we will see many 120Hz LCD displays before 2H of 2009 or let's say even 2010 though.
what about input lag ? is it lag free like some iyama monitors ? I'm pretty skeptical about this 120hz thing also, lcd tvs have 120hz refresh for months now but that's not REAL 120hz http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1603211
This is not an interpolation trick like with the HDTVs, these monitors actually use a 120Hz input due to dual-link DVI input which no other 22" screens use. The current 60Hz LCDs lack bandwidth of doing 120Hz but with dual-Link DVI there's enough bandwidth to make it possible and 120Hz input is needed for 3D stereoscophic gaming too because the glasses splits the frames so that if we have frame 1,2,3,4,5,6 then frame 1, 3 , 5 will be displayed for left eye and 2,4,6 will be displayed for right eye why you get 60 FPS for both eyes, with current 60Hz displays that would result in 30 FPS which won't be smooth enough for 3D gaming.
I've waited 5 years for 100Hz+ LCD monitors to arrive and sticking to CRTs meanwhile, I wouldn't have posted this if I was unsure what it is about. I'm only doing a favor to spread info out to people who likes high fps/Hz gaming and perhaps even use a CRT due to that. Besides better motion fluidity it will provide less input lag and tearing.
PS, Dual-Link DVI doesn't mean you'll need 2 DVI cables, it's just the connector that is different and is like it's made 2 DVI connectors in 1, hench it's got more pins, scroll down on this page to see the difference http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/dvi_info.html
#4 I think he means it's not 120Hz input. The LCD TVs with "120Hz" have a controller/processor built in that inserts an extra frame between 2 frames by doing advanced calculations. So therefore plugging in a "120Hz" LCD TV to your comp will only let you select 60Hz in the monitor properties as it's still a 60Hz input only.
The upcoming 120Hz LCD monitors however lets you select 120Hz also in monitor properties page as they use 120Hz input and not some fake interpolation trick.
It's not 5ms GTG response time it seems, Samsung seems to have changed response time rating lately, it doesn't make any sense being 5ms GTG when 2233BW (which probably will be a lot similiar to this 2233RZ 120Hz display minus the 120Hz support) is also 5ms and this is a gamer marketed display, an upgraded 226BW sorta which had 2ms GTG response time. Besides 5ms GTG with 120Hz wouldn't make a lot of sense when it would have to be less than 8ms. ViewSonic's 120Hz LCD offering has 3ms response time whatever that means. I usually trust reviews better than the stated specs.
Whats the fake interpolation trick that HDTV's use? There are Plasmas out there right now that advertise 480HZ with this new "sub field drive" that they have, and LCD's that get 120 HZ with progressive scan. what trick are you talking about?
I wouldn't say insane, since this solution is not very expensive, I'd guess 50 ~ $70 USD or ~50€ price premium making them among the expensier 22" TN (I'm pretty sure they are TN) panels, I'd say around 300~$320 USD or 250~280 EUR but that's just an educated guess. The models they're based on that exists minus the 120Hz support are cheap and the Zalman 22" iZ3D 3D gaming capable display which is a bit similiar but not quite as these are slightly expensier to make and this display currently goes for $349.99 on newegg (link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp.. so therefore around $300 make sense for these 2 displays.
Anyone can play the same on an LCD and a CRT. Modern LCDs are already quite adequate. I play on a 22" widescreen 2ms LCD on 800x600 with black bars on the sides and it feels fantastic. You don't feel any lag at all. Although I admit if you play on 640 it does look pretty crappy on an LCD.
Honestly no one should be using CRTs anymore. They don't affect your game enough to justify the damage they do to your eyes and the amount of space they take up. I mean jesus does Newegg even sell new CRTs anymore? Not to mention widescreen is better for doing almost everything else on your computer: working, web browsing, watching movies/kiddyporn, and playing other games.
If you su.ck at this game it's probably because you su.ck and not because of what mouse, mousepad, keyboard, headphone, monitor you use.
Good thing I'm the best player that's ever graced this game. I aim with my toes on a laptop touchpad to make it fair for other people.
For me it's not about playing better on a CRT or something like that, I enjoy 100Hz/FPS gaming a lot more whatever it's offline or online, FPS or racing game etc. It's the increase in motion smoothness what I like, feels smoother, more realtime like. For me great feeling >>> image quality.
Of course less input lag and tearing (I never use Vsync on my CRT) are bonuses but it's not the main reason I'm sticking to a CRT. I could imagine a 22" 16:10 screen at 1680x1050 @ 120Hz might even make aiming easier than at 19" 4:3 1280x960 @ 100Hz and mouse lag and tearing should be lower than current LCD 60Hz displays with 120Hz too.
BTW, the ViewSonic display is rated 3ms response time but that doesn't have to mean it's faster than the Samsung display at 5ms, different manufacturers rate response time differently and they may even have changed GTG rating to average response time for example when GTG gets better than 2ms, who knows? So don't put too much faith into the stated response time, you're better off waiting for some tests. All I can say is that the ViewSonic VX2262WM with rated 2ms response time which looks exactly like the upcoming VX2265WM with 120Hz and also similiar specs etc are one of the very fastest, if not the fastest 22" displays atm. And at some sites like newegg you can see there's 2 ratings for this display (check it out yourself http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp.. ), 2ms GTG but also a 5ms response time? What does this 5ms response time mean? we'll there you go...
27# not in my case, give me an lcd that outputs TRUE 120hz, zero/almost none input lag & motion blur, decent colors wide viewing angles and the option for 1:1 pixel mapping so i can pla my old games at low resolutions with some black borders instead of scaling effects
Btw i've used many lcds during the last 8 months since i served my country by joining the ELDYK military force located in cyprus, many netcafes in nicosia have crappy pings , mice skipping like a monkey on crack and lots of LCDs, so i spent most of my time browsing the web when i used them, as long as a monitor provides a clear and flicker free picture it doesn't matter if it's LCD or crt technology, btw room lighting plays and important role in eye fatigue too !
120hz LCD Monitors just hit the stores, check them out. The End of CRT's ? Well, we'll see. And, no it's not "fake" 120 hz like LCD TV's now. It's true 120hz like CRTs.
I'm a CRT and a LCD owner, and 120hz > 75. I play 1.6 on my CRT obviously cause the old LCD's suck.
QUOTE:Honestly no one should be using CRTs anymore.
Yeah, I should. There's a reason most pro CS players still prefer CRTs.
QUOTE:They don't affect your game enough to justify the damage they do to your eyes and the amount of space they take up.
Yes, they do. 60 hz burns my eyes. Get #vision.
QUOTE:I mean jesus does Newegg even sell new CRTs anymore?
Irrelevant point. How does CRTs being available or not affect their quality?
QUOTE:Not to mention widescreen is better for doing almost everything else on your computer: working, web browsing, watching movies/kiddyporn, and playing other games.
That's nice, but some of us want the best image quality, period. Get on our level.
There are so many of you that just won't understand, besides CRTs might be preferred, but in almost all LANs LCDs are used so players are making the switch to get used to it.
would probably only go after a 120hz lcd when they hit below 250 dollars with 2ms response at 22 inches.. so maybe in 2 1/2 years ill be getting one yay.
i want one but not willing to pay 600 dollars when i can get a crt that will do it for like 25 or an lcd that will do 75 for 100$. just not worth the extra money imo
crt's are ONLY better right now because they are capable of offering you true 100 fps counter strike, if LCD's come out that can do that and they're in a decent price range then CRT's will be truly worthless. The LCD is technologically better than the CRT in every way, especially with 120 HZ now being possible.
plus its hard to lug around a 50 pound hunk of glass and plastic and metal to lan's, much easier when it ways like 5 pounds.
I can't stand widescreen for gaming though, even though you can use fixed aspect ratio. I'd prefer a good ol 4:3 19 inch 120hz LCD for myself. That's what I use right now but mine is only 75hz of course.
120Hz LCDs are Near!
For more information on 3D stereoscophic gaming read http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features.. great article. (Interview with ViewSonic rep and details about their 120Hz panel available on 2nd page).
However ViewSonic isn't the only manufacturer that's been keen on entering the 120Hz LCD monitor market, Samsung have hinted long ago already at CES 2006 when it showed off it's first 120Hz based TVs that in future also LCD computer screens could be enjoying higher refresh rates in order to improve motion smoothness, however when that would happen was very unclear at that point. Now with NVIDIA announcing the revival of 3D stereoscophic gaming and ViewSonic announced its own solution, Samsung also wants to get a piece of the new cake, with a model dubbed SyncMaster 2233RZ with following specs:
http://i42.tinypic.com/o6xikp.jpg
- 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor (1680x1050)
- 3D Gaming Ready Monitor (120Hz)
- 20.000:1 Dynamic Contrast
- 5ms Response Time
- HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection)
- DVI-D (Digital Interface)
- Dual-Link DVI input for 245MHz capable pixel clock
- Full specs available http://astkorea.iptime.org/fileupload/bn5.. in Samsung's product link.
Manual available for download already as well, where you can see there's a preset timing mode for 1680x1050 @ 120Hz too.
For some people Santa came early and dropped off a "surprise-surprise" brand new Samsung 2233RZ:
http://i39.tinypic.com/14ki3om.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/swcunk.jpg
For more pics check out the source for above pics http://forums.legitreviews.com/about19198..
It shouldn't be too long before the Samsung display is available with product page already up and the display shipped off to select people for testing, sounds like late January or February to me. The ViewSonic display is said to be available since January sometimes according to some interviews/articles I've read (can't find the source right now). I think it's safe to say now that 120Hz capable LCDs will be available and available very soon too! :) I don't think we will see many 120Hz LCD displays before 2H of 2009 or let's say even 2010 though.
I've waited 5 years for 100Hz+ LCD monitors to arrive and sticking to CRTs meanwhile, I wouldn't have posted this if I was unsure what it is about. I'm only doing a favor to spread info out to people who likes high fps/Hz gaming and perhaps even use a CRT due to that. Besides better motion fluidity it will provide less input lag and tearing.
PS, Dual-Link DVI doesn't mean you'll need 2 DVI cables, it's just the connector that is different and is like it's made 2 DVI connectors in 1, hench it's got more pins, scroll down on this page to see the difference http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/dvi_info.html
The upcoming 120Hz LCD monitors however lets you select 120Hz also in monitor properties page as they use 120Hz input and not some fake interpolation trick.
fail.
Honestly no one should be using CRTs anymore. They don't affect your game enough to justify the damage they do to your eyes and the amount of space they take up. I mean jesus does Newegg even sell new CRTs anymore? Not to mention widescreen is better for doing almost everything else on your computer: working, web browsing, watching movies/kiddyporn, and playing other games.
If you su.ck at this game it's probably because you su.ck and not because of what mouse, mousepad, keyboard, headphone, monitor you use.
Good thing I'm the best player that's ever graced this game. I aim with my toes on a laptop touchpad to make it fair for other people.
Of course less input lag and tearing (I never use Vsync on my CRT) are bonuses but it's not the main reason I'm sticking to a CRT. I could imagine a 22" 16:10 screen at 1680x1050 @ 120Hz might even make aiming easier than at 19" 4:3 1280x960 @ 100Hz and mouse lag and tearing should be lower than current LCD 60Hz displays with 120Hz too.
BTW, the ViewSonic display is rated 3ms response time but that doesn't have to mean it's faster than the Samsung display at 5ms, different manufacturers rate response time differently and they may even have changed GTG rating to average response time for example when GTG gets better than 2ms, who knows? So don't put too much faith into the stated response time, you're better off waiting for some tests. All I can say is that the ViewSonic VX2262WM with rated 2ms response time which looks exactly like the upcoming VX2265WM with 120Hz and also similiar specs etc are one of the very fastest, if not the fastest 22" displays atm. And at some sites like newegg you can see there's 2 ratings for this display (check it out yourself http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp.. ), 2ms GTG but also a 5ms response time? What does this 5ms response time mean? we'll there you go...
Further, native res's will keep me away from LCD's for gaming forever
Btw i've used many lcds during the last 8 months since i served my country by joining the ELDYK military force located in cyprus, many netcafes in nicosia have crappy pings , mice skipping like a monkey on crack and lots of LCDs, so i spent most of my time browsing the web when i used them, as long as a monitor provides a clear and flicker free picture it doesn't matter if it's LCD or crt technology, btw room lighting plays and important role in eye fatigue too !
120hz LCD Monitors just hit the stores, check them out. The End of CRT's ? Well, we'll see. And, no it's not "fake" 120 hz like LCD TV's now. It's true 120hz like CRTs.
I'm a CRT and a LCD owner, and 120hz > 75. I play 1.6 on my CRT obviously cause the old LCD's suck.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_GeFo..
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/s..
l8
Yeah, I should. There's a reason most pro CS players still prefer CRTs.
Yes, they do. 60 hz burns my eyes. Get #vision.
Irrelevant point. How does CRTs being available or not affect their quality?
That's nice, but some of us want the best image quality, period. Get on our level.
There are so many of you that just won't understand, besides CRTs might be preferred, but in almost all LANs LCDs are used so players are making the switch to get used to it.
plus its hard to lug around a 50 pound hunk of glass and plastic and metal to lan's, much easier when it ways like 5 pounds.
wat
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